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Rorate Caeli Has A Mark Shea Moment

New Catholic at Rorate Caeli channels Mark Shea in a friendly attempt to expose the weakness of the argument.

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16 comments:

Pomeranian Catholic said...

What do you have against Mark Shea?

Pomeranian Catholic said...

I mean seriously, isn't the statute of limitations up on this subject? The original post was made two months ago. And what happened to the respect owed to the dead? Why are people so ready to speak ill of them? What happened to the moral principle that one must ALWAYS assume innocence until a man has proven guilty beyond any reasonable shadow of a doubt? It is a shame and an embarrassment that Catholics seem poised to devour each other at a pen drop and mock each other to the ruination of others' souls and reputations. I see nothing lighthearted or friendly about the satire in question, at all.

Also, kleptomania is a real medical condition. It's entirely possible to have a kleptomaniac saint. The saint must simply resist the irrational urge to steal.

Joseph D'Hippolito said...

Pomeranian Catholic, this is not "devouring" another Catholic. This is parodying his position on a particular subject, which is quite legitimate.

Besides, if you are really concerned about "Catholics...poised to devour each other at a pen drop and mock each other to the ruination of others' souls and reputations," I suggest you take those concerns to Mr. Shea. He has built a legitimate reputation for being nasty, cruel, dishonest and obsessive. I speak from personal experience as one of his targets. Mr. Shea "devours" (to use your phrase) other Catholics with such regularity that he could be registered with the authorities as a cannibal.

Rick DeLano said...

Truly a very funny send up indeed.

I am sure Mr. Shea's well-known largeness of heart and serenity of mind have already led him to respond with a well-earned "touché"............

Right?

;-)

Doug said...

Grace: "My, my, my, what a little ass-hole."

Pomeranian Catholic said...

"I suggest you take those concerns to Mr. Shea. He has built a legitimate reputation for being nasty, cruel, dishonest and obsessive."

Oh, I'm not denying this. I've been one of his targets before too, but it doesn't excuse partaking in the same sort of behavior. Mr. Shea is simply an irascible individual, like St. Jerome was. He's got a big heart though and I don't see how this sort of satire is helping anyone in any way.

Joseph D'Hippolito said...

Pomeranian Catholic, I cannot disagree more. First, the piece put up by Rorate Caeli doesn't have the venom that Shea's pieces usually include.

Second, if Shea really has a "big heart," then he would stop 1)deliberately misrepresenting opposing positions 2)using inflammatory rhetoric when it's not called for 3)insulting people arbitrarily, even going so far as to call their workplaces to criticize them to their bosses 4)engaging in campaigns to destroy the reputations of people.

I don't care how "orthodox" Shea appears. He is evil. People should pray for him, send correspondence to his pastor (Blessed Sacrament Cathedral, Seattle, Washington) about his behavior and stop reading his blog or buying his merchandise.

Pomeranian Catholic said...

He seriously calls peoples' workplaces to criticize them to their bosses? That seems sort of far fetched, and outright illegal. I assure you, I'm not a fanboy of his, and I could do without his rhetoric, but at the heart of all this there's a dead man being used in satire by each side, and I find that distasteful.

Pomeranian Catholic said...

By the way, please read my own blog. It is, in my humble opinion, awesome.

Steve "scotju" Dalton said...

PC, Joe is correct about Shea being "nasty, cruel, dishonest , and obsessive". Go to the catholicchampion.blogspot.com and put Mark Shea into the site's search engine. You will see plenty of proof that Joe is right about the Chesterton wannabe.

Paul H said...

Quote:

"PC, Joe is correct about Shea being 'nasty, cruel, dishonest , and obsessive'. "

So what if Mark Shea is all of those things? You seem to be arguing that two wrongs make a right. How is that different from my six-year-old saying "but he hit me first"? :-)

Personally, I didn't find the Rorate Caeli post to be funny or instructive at all, or even always fair and accurate in its analogies to Mark's original post. Instead, I found it to be disrespectful and in poor taste. (And by the way, I am in general not a fan of Mark Shea's blog.)

Steve "scotju" Dalton said...

Paul H., when all else fails, read the Catholic Champion posts on Mark Shea. Shea has always been a bully, on the internet, and in person. Matt Bellisario is one of the very few persons to stand up to Shea and not turn tail.
You found the RC post in bad taste? All it was basically, a paraphrase of Marko's original post. If there was any "bad taste" it was in Shea's original post on a pervert being almost a saint. RC's point was, if you're going to praise a sodomite for being 'almost a saint', why not a kleptomanic? BTW, Shea, contrary to his anti-gay image, said some years back that sodomy should be decriminalized. Yet this is the guy who's always carping about gay bullies?

Jeffrey Stuart said...

I'm not a fan of the RC post. I think it is below their standards. That being said, they have effectively "shea'd" Mark Shea by providing satire of his original and imprudent piece. And of course, Shea doesn't like it.

True to form, Shea shows his very thin skin by bringing attention to it and humorously even trying to use Michael Voris for his defense. Google alerts must have an entire server devoted to Shea as he keeps tabs on what anyone say about him in the blogosphere.

(Hello, Mark!)

Joseph D'Hippolito said...

I would like to know on what basis Shea's believes Perry Lorenzo should be canonized, even if Perry were heterosexual. I'm not attacking Lorenzo; this isn't about him. It's about Shea's obvious disconnect from reality. That is more frightening than any position he advocates.

Paul H said...

"Paul H., when all else fails, read the Catholic Champion posts on Mark Shea. Shea has always been a bully, on the internet, and in person."

Even if true, so what? Your argument doesn't address my point -- that you seem to be advocating that someone else's bad behavior is justified because of Mark Shea's bad behavior.

"If there was any 'bad taste' it was in Shea's original post on a pervert being almost a saint. RC's point was, if you're going to praise a sodomite for being 'almost a saint', why not a kleptomanic?"

But why couldn't a kleptomaniac be almost a saint? Seriously, why not? Aren't there quite a few canonized saints who struggled quite seriously with sin?

And on what basis do you judge the deceased gentleman to have been a "pervert" or a "sodomite"? Based on what I have read about this man at several blogs, you are assuming facts for which there is no proof.

(It's funny that I'm defending Mark Shea, when I have been turned off many times over the years, in a major way, by things he has written on his blog.)

Jeffrey Stuart said...

Paul,

I don't think there is much dispute among informed Catholics that someone suffering from SSA could indeed live a chaste life and ultimately through the grace of God achieve salvation.

But Mark Shea's article was imprudent. He simply doesn't know enough about the guy to canonize him, especially give reports that the individual was living with another man. Now we don't know either but best to simply say a prayer for his soul, move on and let God sort it out. No need to confuse the issue with articles praising a homosexual that may cause scandal.

In response, Mark got taste of his own treatment, rightly or wrongly. And that's the worst thing you can do to him.


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